i think that the epicureans have the better idea and that the stoics just don't understand it that well since their beliefs are so different from epicureans and therefore reject it all together as a foolish concept. Since stoics value virtue over almost everything else in life, pleasure is not something that is high on their radar. They see little value and importance in it. They do things for the overall effect that they might make and have in the world not really looking out for themselves but for others. They often are taking one for the team and never really thinking about things that would please themselves the most but how their actions will help them in the end. They also have a very passive attitude viewing many actions as things that are not in their control. If they ever feel that they have done their best but there is nothing more that they can do they will simply give up and let fate and destiny do its thing. But in life there is rarely any situation that a person can help in absolutely no way possible. For example, if you run a business and higher all the right people and you think you made all the right decisions for your company and yet your business is still doing poorly a stoic might just give up and let the chips fall where they may but, a person should always try and do more and never give up and through up their hands.
In life an epicurean tend to seek out the most pleasure possible viewing every day as a chance to have fun and find new pleasures. Since they only have one life to live why not?! However this does not mean that a stoic would avoid one task or opportunity just because their might be pain involved. They do not avoid pain and suffering in life they just seek out the pleasure in things. They view opportunities with their eyes wide open to possibilities of pleasure and do not let them be passed by like a stoic would. Overall epicureans definitely do not avoid life they just look for the pleasurable parts in it.
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I'm not sure I see how stoics are always looking out for others, since they are exclusively concerned with the things they have control over. You said they tend to have a passive attitude, which I agree with, so I don't understand how that meshes with the idea that they're out to help others.
ReplyDeleteOn the business example:
ReplyDeleteIn some situations, isn't it good to know when to quit? In that example, the business owner did the best they could in starting and maintaining their business. Maybe it just wasn't meant to be. Isn't it possible that the business owner is failing because they weren't meant to be successful? Why waste precious time and resources if the order of the world is so strongly against you succeeding? After all, it's for the best.
I think that Stoics are primarily focused on individual actions as opposed to altruistic attitudes toward others. I don't think they would be interested in helping out others in need when their business is falling apart, nor do I believe that Stoics would "let the chips fall where they may" because they only care about controlling what they want to preserve for themselves, and in this case it would be their business.
ReplyDeleteYou write: "They [Epicureans] do not avoid pain and suffering in life they just seek out the pleasure in things." How is this not a contraction? The Epicurean definition of happiness is the absense of pain, so it's clearly something they strive to avoid. This begs the question: are they missing something from life by trying to avoid pain?
ReplyDeleteYou have a pretty good grasp of Stoicism except you seem to imply "giving up" as a failure. Since Stoics believe everything that happens is reasonable and for a purpose, they only "fail" at life when they allow themselves to be saddened by it. That's the only kind of "giving up" that amounts to failure for a Stoic. Remember their motto: carpe diem. Everyday is a good day, no matter what it brings. Make the most of it, even the parts that seem depressing.